I agree.
I think it is a waste of university resources to be engaging in this type of investigation.
Some of the students have a point. The chants are not the most appropriate.
But certainly there must have been other avenues for the students to exhaust before wasting MY STUDENT FEES on this type of investigation… for what i remember.. the regular UTM frosh week chants WERE WAY WORST!!!
this is way out of proportion !!!!!!!

BizFrosh has been a legendary event around UTM for years now, and these chants have contributed to what makes it what it is.

“What it is”, is an ever growing event with a record number of 200 students this year getting to know one another in a friendly and exciting manner. There is no animosity or aggression portrayed through the cheers. No one is targeted, and everything is taken with good humour which is why, although hard to believe for some who aren’t at the events, the atmosphere at BizFrosh is extremely positive.

The same can’t be said about UTMSU Frosh Week where the “negative” cheers are directed at individuals. “What do we think of this person? F**K THIS PERSON!” That does not happen at BizFrosh.

First years have still praised the event months after it ended and continue to look forward to the next one.

Take it for what it is, and when you look past this crap that’s been blown out of proportion, BizFrosh will live on strong.

If people don’t like it, they shouldn’t go.
I agree with Mary, why isn’t UTM Frosh week getting any fire for this?

The chants especially are voluntary. The UCS Exec’s even run through chants before hand and ask if anyone is uncomfortable with them.

This is obviously a clear effort to sabotage UCS bizfrosh by one or two individuals for some reason.

Having been part of both BizFrosh and UTMSU frosh, there are extremely lewd/offensive chants during both events.

If UCS is going to get crucified for it, UTMSU should be too.

Don’t waste our student fees? Oh UTM definitely knows how to do that but that’s another topic for another day.

As many of the individuals eluded to above, there is purely a case of one or two individuals having a personal vendetta against UCS. Let it be known that UCS is much more than a society that likes to have fun. No other society on our campus adds more value back to student experience than UCS does for it’s commerce students. It’s a shame that all of the hardwork our society does is overshadowed by this.

As Rick and a few others mentioned above, UTMSU Frosh can be held in the same light. I personally recall being on a bus going downtown and having one of the orientation leaders leading the chant “What do we think of the other bus?”….”F*** the other bus”. Is this the type of language UTMSU wants to condone? How about leading by example. Before you start pointing fingers make sure your hands are clean.

But hey kudos to the medium, its the first time your paper is actually being talked about on my three years on campus.

Oh and by the way, I suppose BizFrosh LOVES the “young” considering all the underage froshies drinking at the events.

Response to JnS:
You would have sounded even half legitimate if you didn’t state what you think BizFrosh is used for. Rick’s definition is what BizFrosh REALLY is. An argument like yours can’t be taken seriously if you’re mixing your accusation and opinion in as a fact (i.e. you suppose BizFrosh participants are in it for a specific twisted reality; you describe participants as one sad character that you are biasedly and incorrectly stating).

And to comment on the blame of UTM orientation, you would know for a fact it is WORSE and furthermore is towards a larger student body…and is not mentioned, because it would come back to the people who help run it – UTMSU.

It is not sensible if one hasn’t attended one or both events to comment on it. If you just simply read this article, you will be missing out on the real popularity and probably the best society/club at UTM due to a lack of information.

Underage drinking? I can’t believe these accusations.

Obviously from “reliable source” who wishes to remain anonymous.

Coward.

I also attended BizFrosh this year, and beleive it was a great event to get to know students. The two people that made complaints couldn’t see past what was in front of their face to realise that it was a great chance to make friends instead of over reacting.

JnS – no alcohol was served to the underage students. If they did have any alcohol it was acquired on their own. UCS is not responsible to search every student to ensure that they have no alcohol with them. We are university students, capable of making our own decisions and living with the consequences. If they can make their way up to the camp grounds on their own they are old enough to take care of themselves (especially since their parents gave them the permission to go and act on their own behalf) UCS is not responsible to baby sit, it provided a fun and safe environment.
JnS statement is completely out of bounds.

Well “Carl” I’d assume if you could stand behind your arguments you wouldn’t need an alias.

JnS,
You clearly have not attended both orientation events then. If you have, you stayed on the bus (and even then you would have noticed everything going on if you were concious).
This is not a personal attack, but trying to logically explain how I laughed real hard when you stated this does not happen during frosh week – WRONG!!! MORE THAN YOU KNOW happens in those 7 days! If you haven’t witnessed it, don’t say it never happens! I saw all of what you said and worse that would shut any activity down!

How is it a double standard? If you cannot see how there can be unfair and totally overblown on a historic society and growing event, then there is no use. And please, do not state a fact if it is not a fact.

“I also want to thank Saaliha Malik and her colleagues at UTMSU for their efforts in trying to deal with this problem”

This line deserves an award for it’s irony. How is UTMSU going around saying BizFrosh is inappropriate and disrespectful when Frosh Week run by UTMSU is waaaaaaaaayyyy worse.

LOL. Carl you make me laugh.

Ackson: It’s okay! I was confused but I guessed that’s what happened.
JnS: I’m glad you’re reading my replies! I hope you see – and even better – continue to take part, in UCS.

To finish up the little e-debate here…it is a low blow to brand BizFrosh/UCS in a negative way. It is all simply great. No harm has been done. I have other opinions and words for the individuals whom complained…
Anyhow, I look forward to UCS clearing it’s name of this overblown complaint.

“I have other opinions and words for the individuals whom complained…” and you guys want to talk about singling out people? Amazing.

Hey Everyone,

Regardless what all your arguements are. Such as saying something as childish as: “It’s a waste of university resources”

It is absolutely not acceptable for any university related events to be exclusive to any individuals. These cheers tend to promote such negative environment and I understand that it is a tradition for almost all types of orientation events. However since we acknowledged the impact of the negative atmosphere it brings on a some people, we should take action as student leaders to make sure we have an inclusive space. In response to the individual who claims that this response from the university is a waste of money: if student leaders would be more initiative on this issue, no money has to be wasted. In additon it is the lack of responsibilities of these leaders to not adapt the policy thus the university did not want to waste money on them. Thus their funding should be frozen.

Our VP Equity is trying to make this a safer space for everyone starting with our own orientation. Several new measurements are in place to adpot these changes. I would like to see UCS, clubs and other academic societies be considerate enough to implement it.

I disagree Johnny.

Why should we abide by the rules of the few?

I agree that no discrimination should be tolerated towards absolutely any party, but this is their choice of attendance and participation. Nothing more.

Please do not change Christmas into Holiday Day and “What do we think of Johnny?” into “We mildly and humbly disagree with him”

You are not in commerce, and you are not aware of the bond commerce students share, party to these events they hold.

Thanks,
Jeremiah

To Johnny Ho,
Any leaders involved with UTM orientation and the bodies who run it should be held responsible for the many more violations on or off the record. Be prepared for a totally politically correct (and totally distasteful) blame game next year for UTMSU as well I would imagine.

I’m really looking forward to a public hearing on this matter and to get the voice of all students, since two students thus far were heard.
I’m probably done with comments here…

LOL!

First to Jeremiah: I am in Commerce.

To Carl: In fact as we speak, UTMSU is investigating on some incidents that occurred during Orientation Week. The university has also spoke with us and thus we understand how serious the issue can be. I hope you all understand that UTMSU did not freeze the funding for UCS. The university has decided to do so and as student reps, we will try our best to help UCS out of this situation. However we need UCS to cooperate with us in order for us to do so. The reason for the freeze is that the incoming UCS council members do not view this issue as important as we have tried to tell them it is. The university saw how light UCS was taking this issue, and thus decided on such action.

Anyways! I am not here to argue with anyone, but to clarify the many steps UTMSU has tried to work with UCS and the steps we are taking to ensure an inclusive orientation week next year.

In addition, even though orientation week may have incidents of alcohol activities, we actually do have strict policies on this. All in all, UTMSU does not promote the consumption of alcohol during frosh week. However I will like to remind everyone that occurrences of and promoting alcohol activities are definitely two separate ideas and intentions.

Plus, the complaint was not only brought to the attention of UTMSU, but the principle at the same time. The only thing UTMSU can do now, is to help UCS find a better solution to resolve this issue before it escalate further, which I am sure the university is ready to do.

Sex pub has jello wrestling, jello wrestling is offensive and objectifies women.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=47313184&id=28107928&op=1&view=all&subj=54114578170&aid=-1&oid=54114578170

Shall we launch a crusade against the SEC office? Who’s down?

Just to clarify: When I mention, “individuals who have taken this matter up to Student Affairs” – I am not referring to VP Equity of UTMSU, rather the two students that have been complaining.

haha~.. yes i know Mubashir..

anywayz… IF there is any further comments, it will be really pointless now… its not a debate… I, VP Campus Life, really don’t care what the debate is about. All that I care about are those students who were affected by the discrimination, work towards future measurements to prevent exclusivity and to help UCS resolve the situation with the university.

I liked UCS very much
I don’t drink… and drinking and chants didn’t bother me.. because I just didn’t participate..
The ppl there did not force me at all.

I love ucs because it was the first time I got a chance to go kayaking.. No other frosh does that! I never did that in Pakistan.. But I got a chance now that I’m in Canada.

That’s also a good point Jackie – isn’t UCS a separate organization not under UTMSU?

Jackie,

UCS is an academic society that is funded by the department of management along with sponsorship. All academic societies are under UTMSU.

Tasha – Umm this is interesting.. I remember specifically during an orientation for those applying for ucs executive positions.. that the audience was informed that UCS is not under UTMSU….

It may be interesting to investigate this point.

As the previous Minister of Student Life and Associate VP Campus Life I know exactly how much planning and work goes into orientation week.

I know that UTMSU Leaders are taught to report underage drinking as well as refrain from drinking themselves even if they are of age.

UTM’s Orientation events, being “dry”, do not make them boring. Many UCS members boast that their events are much more exciting because they allow members to partake in events that include drinking.

Though leaders for both BizFrosh and UTM Orientation are not baby-sitters, it is their job to watch the younger students and make sure they are making responsible and legal actions. You are their first experience of UTM student life and you should be their ideal role models.

UCS probably hosts a very popular and fun BizFrosh and I’m sure they put a lot of hard work into their event. However, though I have not attended, it is clearly known that underage drinking happens at BizFrosh. Just look up event pictures on Facebook.

This issue goes beyond underaged drinking and focuses on foul and vulgar cheers which discriminate against people. The Chicago cheer, which I have personally heard, refers to abortion by pushing a woman down the stairs. How is this appropriate?

I find it very concerning that people are turning this into a battle between UCS and UTMSU. Saaliha Malik is promptly dealing with a homophobic cheer brought to their attention by a student’s complaint this year. A report is being written to address this issue and to furthur prevent such actions in the future.

What has UCS done to address their issues except for leaving in the hands of VP Equity to deal with it? Is it fair for UCS to ignore complaints of their student body and force UTMSU to take charge? I don’t think so, but, it must be done. UCS has no right to make UTMSU look like the “bad guy”.

To my understanding, UCS has known that there was an issue as such for 4 whole months. How strange is it that one of our largest student organizations would not address such a complaint in a timely and organized fashion? It’s very easy to point fingers at UTMSU when you want to get the guilt off your shoulders.

The truth of the matter is that the UCS executive had a choice to adopt a policy that would help eliminate and show a step in the right direction in cleaning up their acts.

I learned that mediation between UCS and VP Equity at UTMSU was, clearly, not successful.

Instead of arguing about who’s cheers are worse, why don’t both parties sit down and see how they can resolve the matter at hand. It is not about which Orientation is cooler or what cheers are worse but rather the complaint of a UTM student who has been negatively affected.

QUOTE
“Ok how about to include the 2 or 3 that do not enjoy the party atmosphere at BizFrosh, we buy them ear muffs and ear plugs. Every time we make a cheer, we offer them to put ear plugs in (donated by the UCS). It is a win win situation!

Thanks,
Jeremiah

/QUOTE

You cannot be serious! This is the dictionary definition of exclusion. You have to consider the feelings of everyone, and your suggestion is only more offensive to those that do not appreciate some of BizFrosh’s activities.

Lets remember the intentions of Bizfrosh next time we think about attempting to embarass them shall we?
The UCS is a great study group and Bizfrosh is the best event offered by UTM.
The individuals who had a problem should have notified their leaders immediately when they were offended…just another case of a small issue being blown out of proportion…

One problem…we should try to help our fellow students who work very hard in their groups and clubs…not embarass them with a bias article. We all go to UTM so i dont see why this made the newspaper..to discourage people from going to the best event? to criticize UCS? neither is fair. Ill be at bizfrosh next year..best times.

The chants definitely cross the line. Promoting pedophilia is horrible. The people in charge of UCS are being very stubborn about this by refusing to co-operate with UTMSU. They are putting funding at risk, and for what? The right to have a few chants? Very ignorant individuals.

The individuals in charge of UCS (and I know them) are not being responsible. They are looking out for their personal self interests first. Some of the comments in that article are also irresponsible. As seniors, they should have the interests of every froshie on the trip, but instead, they choose to support the interests of the horny, fratboy, immature types, thus isolating and offending others. As seniors you need to be responsible to others.

I am pretty sure there are many people who have felt uncomfortable during times at Biz Frosh, but as a whole enjoy the trip. But it doesn’t make it ok to have lewd chants.

Also to Mr. Mubashir, if the two individuals came to you and complained, would UCS have done anything? Probably not.

Change needs to be made. I support Hugh Gunz.

As a closing note – To UCS and your duties. It’s not what you want that you gotta do, but rather what the Commerce population needs.

P.S. UTSC has a fine Biz Frosh, take an example from them.

I think that this event is really good, from my own experiences, and I think that the actions taken by the department are too drastic.

I think we should conduct a cost-benefit analysis to find out what the optimal amount of cheers is.

For example, pollution hurts a lot of people but we do not cut out pollution and drive Flinstone cars, do we? We produce enough pollution to a point where the benefits derived from pollution, for example heat to warm our homes, equal the costs expended to produce these benefits, such as lower air quality.

I think we need to determine what the benefits of these cheers are and what costs we pay to reap these benefits. We should assign this project to the economics council and conduct the cost-benefit analysis and find the optimal point of cheers.

I agree that everyone deserves to be in an environment where they are comfortable and there should be a zero tolerance for anything otherwise– but if this situation comes up, speak up for we are adults, we are the best and brightest of our time. We have mouths, if we find something uncomfortable, speak up! And so we have!!

What we need to do is stop fighting UCS vs UTMSU, we are on the same page here. What we need to do is find a new way to keep our Froshees engaged and do what we as Frosh leaders and coordinators set out to do– offer our Froshees an opportunity to create memories that will last a lifetime, give them the opportunity to learn, and a chance to meet new people.

Right now, we’re all in the hole– UTMSU, CCT, UCS, and any other orientation committee out there– what we need to do is stop fighting, and we need to work to get out of this mess together. We need to innovate our frosh weeks because what we have been doing obviously has not been working. I say so because even just one voice has said so. Yes, it will be hard to satisfy everyone. Yes, we will probably lose a lot of Froshees that like how we do things now. Yes, this won’t be easy– but you know what, we are innovative leaders and we are facing a challenge– this is university and we are competent adults. This can’t be done over-night, this can’t be achieved in one summer, and we fall before we walk. But if we perservere, if we put in the time, you know what– we will overcome this. We will offer a fresh, new, innovative frosh where everyone is happy.

Saaliha Malik you are dead wrong on this one!

UCS gives back to students more than any other society on campus, UTMSU is a shadow in terms of perfomance regarding student life on campus especially given their budget and campaign slogans!

Taking away the right to cheer, also takes away the freedom of speech. It is not a school rule this is part of the Canadian constitution. Cheering at UCS social events is done in good faith, not derogatory to anyone directly, and it is humourous for everyone involved. Very importantly it is voluntary. Students actually pay to participate in these events.

On a lighter note;
One: From an economics point of view, what we have is product differentiation, where rezfrosh is mild, UTMSU frosh is sweet and sour, UCS frosh is simply HOT. Just because you cant eat hot wings it does not mean that the restaurant should not cook them. If they stopped cooking them on your account; you are being very selfish and concieted. (Irrational and not being a profit maximizer P=MC)
Two: An optimal solution is that an IMPARTIAL body creates “cheer tax” this will work like “Stephan Dion’s carbon tax” for everyone whole day of wanted and allowed cheers then $X would be handed to an organization that caters for sexual harassment victims. This tax will have to be optimal in the sense that, persons who cheer are not taxed for exercising their freedom of speech and expression. A line has o be drawn between you being a high school prefect and the university moulding responsible citizens for tomorrow.

I am very dissapointed in the way that UTMSU is using our hard earned resources for investigations instead of scholarships!

Again, addressing Chris M., get over the student fees issue.

Money will always be spent in many facets of our campus and different initiatives. This is probably the least of your concerns.

Why not talk about money being spent on more events rather than overstaffing? Anything along that line.

Be realistic.

I think people need to actually read the article before they start blaming UTMSU.

FACT: Two students filed a complaint to UTMSU about the derogatory nature of the cheers at bizfrosh.

FACT: As the only students’ union representing full-time students at the Mississauga Campus, it is their obligation to act on the issue.

FACT: UTMSU worked for the past 4 months with UCS to implement a policy that will reduce the chances of their derogatory cheers taking place. After months of working with UCS and taking time to craft an effective policy, UCS decided to ignore the concerns of these students and not even make an effort to adopt the policy.

It seems to me that UCS was given ample opportunity to address this issue. UTMSU took on the role of mediator to address the issue-yes this issue does not only concern UCS as all students are represented by UTMSU-and by virtue of not the accepting the policy, or even taking steps to address this issue, I think UCS is at FAULT.

I would also like to know why the UCS executive would defend such lewd cheers that are blatantly immature, derogatory, and discriminatory, in light of the fact that they attend one of the best academic institutions in Canada. The fact that our so-called future leaders of commerce choose to continue on with repugnant archaic traditions is beyond me.

Didn’t anyone consider that since the university is taking issue with this, and apparently has been for the last four years, exemplifies the serious nature of the issue.

I go to University and expect to be in an environment inclusive of all races, genders, religions, and anything else that would marginalize individuals. From my perspective UCS looks like a bunch of door-knob FRAT BOY!

Grow up! Get over it! And do something about it!

Those cheers are gone and I say good-riddance!

PS: UTMSU has also adopted a policy to change the climate of Orientation week due to complaints this year!

Jeremiah,

I think you’re failing to see the point! It’s not about the numbers, its about the principle, and the chants were both lewd and unacceptable. Given what you’ve said earlier, I can’t see how you would endorse the comments.

For example, if 2 students complain about antisemitism on campus, should we shut them up just because there are only two of them? Do you really think all the other 198 people at BizFrosh loved every single chant? I don’t see how protecting people’s rights is a waste of student fees. It is obvious that the cost of such a proceeding would be absolutely insignificant.

Jeremiah,

One more note: during my time as Minister of Student Life and Associate VP Campus Life I was unpaid. I had no salary.

Perhaps you should do some research before making random comments. Do your homework as a “professional” would.

Thank you.

Calling UCS a bunch of frat boys is just hilarious considering you’re arguing for everyone to be inclusive. Believe it or not lots of UTM students are active members of fraternities downtown.

Like I said before, if we’re going to put BizFrosh and UCS under the microscope, other events are sure to follow.

This is halfway to dress codes at halloween pub(bye bye shirtless firefighters/skanky schoolgirls)/sex pub/100% pg-13 cheers at frosh etc. All for the sake of not offending anyone.

Do we really want that?

The definition for ALL is EVERYONE not majority!

2 students mean not everyone.

Saaliha,

“I hope everyone can understand that this issue is not about whether the chants are appropriate or not because the University of Toronto has recognized the fact that these chants are NEVER to happen again”….are you sure?

Because clearly that is what its ALL about…

Well this will surely set an interesting precedent for future events.

I suppose it’s all fine and dandy until it’s YOUR club getting scrutinized.

If you find yourself saying “Man, UTM is so lame, we never have any fun events” or “frosh is so lame” or “I can’t believe our halloween pub has a dresscode” sometime in the near future, don’t be surprised.

I can appropriate certain people taking the high ground and defending the minority, in this case the ratio happens to be 1:99. To make this 1% feel more inclusive you’re jeopardizing the experience (they clearly enjoy it, or they wouldn’t be doing it) and excluding the voice of the other 99%. You’re pretty much telling the 99% that if they don’t like the experience that the 1% dictates, they can go **** themselves.

Personally, I do not enjoy the chants either, but I also don’t find it offensive. They are just words, not even directed at anyone. Obviously anyone intelligent enough to get into University of Toronto should be able to figure that out. They are just poking fun at the cliche university frat stereotypes.

People need to grow up a little, we’re all adults already.

Thanks,
Jeremiah

I am appalled by the reaction of so many students regarding this problem.

The chants that have gone on during bizfrosh and UTMSU frosh are descriminatory and sexist.
I have yet to read one legitimate argument explaining why cheers of this nature are acceptable. If you don’t like it, then don’t participate. Other frosh events have worse cheers. NONE OF THIS MAKES SEXIST CHEERS ACCEPTABLE.

Imagine if the cheers were of a racist, rather than sexist nature. No one would stand for it. There would be a campus-wide uproar! And the university would put a stop to the racist cheers. But sexist cheers? They don’t really matter because its just a joke and anyone who is against it is just a “fun sucker”.

Why is it okay in a university environment to gather in groups and chant about women (and apparently, in some instances, underage women) and descriminate against them? Even if these chants are done “jokingly”, it certainly doesn’t ensure that all participants are aware of that.

I challenge someone to explain how cheers of this nature, which single out and discriminate against a minority, contribute to the bonding experience that frosh week should be.

Comment removed due to violation of mediumutm.ca terms of use section 6a.

“And for the ladies who thought the chants were okay, go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you would let yourself become a mockery by men.â€� – pickles09

And…exactly who are you to tell an entire gender what they should and should not find acceptable? Maybe some females can realize a joke when they hear it, and know not to find it offensive. It is laughable that you are writing that under the guise of concern for women’s rights when you just stereotyped us as a whole, and told us what to think of ourselves. Bravo on being the biggest hypocrite to have posted so far.

You should take some time to examine your arguments, as they are a ridiculous generalizations and sheltered statements. After picking apart UCS in your first paragraph you then tell us to go find a better club to be a fan of in ‘the real world’. Are you serious? The purpose of this article was to discuss UCS and the fallout surrounding bizfrosh, this is a UNIVERSITY event, I am sure everyone has ‘real world’ interests but that is not the point at hand, is it? And on the topic of ‘the real world’, since you seem to be the expert here, I am sure you know there is nobody to censor people in this real world you speak of. If people are so easily offended they will live a miserable life as they will always find something to have an issue with.

Also your assertion that UCS does nothing for the commerce student body is a bold statement, one I am sure most of the commerce students would contest. But I digress. I am just a girl, I should probably go find something sparkly and inoffensive to occupy my time….

There are many many fun cheers out there that are not about rape or jacking off.

Once again, talking about pedophilia and chants in such a manner are obviously far from the religion of Christianity (only because you bought that up initially). Respecting others’ rights is pretty important as well.

To UTMSU

You have spoke enough about BIZFROSH, and don’t need my opinion. BUT what about the Median that nobody reads yet since it’s about UCS has everybody reading.

How dare you speak on behalf of students discriminated, when you allow the Median to post a photo without consent, to ruin an innocent and kind girl’s image to the student body.

You tend to create a human rights code for sexual harassment yet you dismiss the MEDIAN, whose sole attempt was to provide a photo of BIZFROSH 2007 and speak about BIZFROSH 2008.

How do you comment on the girl whose life is now ruined?
What action will you take?

I have left high school, I had no intention to pay 10,000 just to re-attend high school. UTM

Whatever happens with these chants.

I certainly hope that the Commerce Management adminstration will see that there is a huge student outcry against the necessity of engaging in an extra investigation into this matter. Many students believe this investigation is out of proportion.
And whatever the end result is – ban the chants or not…

THIS SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY AFFECT THE RESULTS OF ALLOWING THE SKI TRIP HAPPEN!

don’t take away the one thing that commerce students look forward to before exams as a result of a few minority dissents to childish chants!!!

DON’T TAKE AWAY THE SKI TRIP

DON’T TAKE AWAY MY UCS EXPERIENCE!!

Great discussion.

Particularly like pickles09 comment, you hit it right on the head.

SS: Before you post a comment on the story, you should probably want to know what the NAME of the newspaper is. Medium, not MEDIAN. Wow…

Exactly! Meghan! … I am sure UCS can do it! Woohoo!~

DON’T TAKE AWAY MY SKI TRIP

SKI TRIP IS INDEPENDENT FROM THE FROSH EVENT!

THERE ARE NO CHANTS!!

DON’T TAKE IT AWAY!!!

Many of my current friends I made over cheers, flag making, secretive drinking and the bizfrosh games. They are all bonding experiences with a humorous flare. If I ever felt insulted, uncomfortable or unhappy I would have ceased. If I ever felt that I was insulting/slandering/ harming anyone in any way I would have ceased. Fact is, everything is done in good humor, without a hint of maliciousness. I would have thought it obvious that the words of the cheers are not to be taken literally.

As young adults you are exposed to various types of fun. Choose the ones you prefer and surround yourself in them. As Ivan demonstrated, Playfair, while exceptionally PG themed does little to stand out or make an impact.

Do you guys know the phrase “Pot calling the kettle black?”

because thats what the majority of you are doing at this point.

P2P
DO you attend UFT, or York. Some quotes are best understood when you use your head.

If I where you I’d drop out and start flipping burgers at McD.

JnS
Regardless of the papers name.. If your photo was displayed what would you do?

Ps. Congratulations, Stolly. You just exposed yourself with the “secretive drinking.”

Can’t people “bond” without insulting one another? You don’t need to make events completely PG but you don’t have to take it to the other extreme either to the point that it is harmful, hurtful, degrading, or however you’d like to word it.

Being the nerd that I am, I was just watching “lie to me.” where they kind of do some overview of emotions and psychology. One of the themes last week was “Hazing”.

From Wikipedia:

“Hazing is a ritualistic test and a task involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a person into a gang, club, military organization or other group. The definition can refer to either physical (sometimes violent) or mental (possibly degrading) practices. It may also include nudity or sexually oriented activities”

Hazing is also a rituals that promote unity through understanding of suffering that is to be endured (in this case being a student). If one doesn’t go through with the hazing they’re looked down upon.

HMMMMMMMMMM….

Interesting discussion and a really good article.